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Najwa

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Fundamentalist Thelemites [Oct. 9th, 2005|09:32 pm]
Najwa
Nobody likes a fundamentalist.

Over the years I'd heard tell of fundamentalist Thelemites, but never came across one myself. It's pretty scary shit.
Would anyone leave their children (or even their pets) alone with someone who really felt that they were not required to practice compassion? What about the basic rules of social interaction? Are we not accountable for our actions and the way we treat other people? Would they really kill someone who got in their way? Even if the Book of the Law actually came out somewhere and said "compassion is clearly a bad thing and true Thelemites do not show compassion", would these Fundies simply display nothing but cruelty? Would other people still choose to keep these people around? How would they have friends?
As a baby, would they have wanted that their parents not ever change their diaper or feed them because they were wretched, weak, or miserable.

I guess some interpret the BOTL as permission to be socially retarded.

Throughout time there has been cases of people hiding behind scripture to justify the most ugly and embarrassing things people have ever done - from war to slavery to general cruelty.

I believe a magician is to behave as a pillar of society and set a good example for advanced, joyous, and upright living. It is a position of great responsibility.

Just my two cents. Kudos to ashkosis for bringing up this touchy subject.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: isomeme
2005-10-10 03:15 am (UTC)
As Machiavelli pointed out so well (and as so few people understand about his work today), a King may prosper most easily by gaining the support and respect of his people. Even if there is no moral or ethical dimension to "good behavior", it's easy to justify it on purely instrumentalist grounds.

That being said, I do agree that Thelema does not exclude compassion, and indeed encourages it in Liber AL's typical twisty backhanded way, as I mentioned in my post over on Ash's journal.
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[User Picture]From: tristan_moore
2005-10-10 03:16 am (UTC)
Once that fundy gets cancer, watches his/her spouse go through a debilitating disease... watch how the current changes real quick.

;) Don't let it distract you from your work
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[User Picture]From: najwa_maryam
2005-10-10 03:20 am (UTC)
You're right. I'm just on my soap box now. Must have been all the Hare Krishna food.
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[User Picture]From: tristan_moore
2005-10-10 03:24 am (UTC)
LOL!!! Darn it girly! Now I'm hungry :)

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[User Picture]From: isomeme
2005-10-10 03:25 am (UTC)
Reminds me of one of my favorite Tom Lerher bits -- "All in all it's been a nervous year, and people are starting to feel like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis."
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[User Picture]From: tristan_moore
2005-10-10 03:32 am (UTC)
There is a time and place for everything. The subject of compassion seems so damn obvious and common sense that I think that some are having a difficult time seeing how common sense it is. Its like wiping your ass, (not much to it!)
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[User Picture]From: contentlove
2005-10-10 03:50 am (UTC)
Its like wiping your ass, (not much to it!)

Unless you fail to do it...then it can become a huge problem ;)
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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-10 03:45 am (UTC)
The kid who keeps commenting on Ash's journal is about 17-18. He really IS a kid. Remember when we were that age? We thought we had it all figured out, too ;)
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[User Picture]From: najwa_maryam
2005-10-10 03:47 am (UTC)
oh no shit? that explains everything.
when i was a kid I wasn't that smart, but I thought I knew everything.
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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-10 03:49 am (UTC)
Yeah, if I had known before I initially responded to him, I wouldn't have responded at all. I have no patience for teenage obnoxion.
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[User Picture]From: isomeme
2005-10-10 04:36 am (UTC)
"Obnoxion" -- that's a keeper!
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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-10 05:02 am (UTC)
Why thank you! I got a little thrill when I coined it- it feels like a good word :)

There's just no point in arguing with a teenager, unless of course they are YOUR teenager and you are trying to help or protect them, because their brain chemistry/electrical activity is NOT geared for rational thought. It's like that whole "teach a pig to sing" thing.

I have developed an infuriating habit of telling my 15-yr-old sister "You will understand when you're older," rather than arguing with her, because now I know that she probably will understand many things (she being an intelligent and adaptive young lady) when she is an adult that she does not understand at this time.
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[User Picture]From: ladyoscar
2005-10-10 06:07 am (UTC)
Ultimately, each one of us makes our own choices -- choices about what to believe and how to act based on those beliefs. And each of us bear the responsibility of those choices; whatever the results are on the outside world, on our person, and at least, if nothing else, internally. The Book of the Law doesn't, Crowley doesn't, Aiwass doesn't, Jesus doesn't -- the individual making the decision does.

Baby Fundie has missed the point. "Aiwass said it, I believe it, that settles it" would only make sense if one were supposed to do Aiwass' will, not one's own.
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[User Picture]From: lassiter
2005-10-10 04:36 pm (UTC)

Baby Fundie has missed the point. "Aiwass said it, I believe it, that settles it" would only make sense if one were supposed to do Aiwass' will, not one's own.

Yep - I'm not sure how people who claim to follow every word of AC's to the letter fail to miss his repeated references to Aiwass being Crowley's HGA, not anyone else's.

Of course, I suspect Aiwass was more likely to have been Rose's HGA and not Crowley's, but that's a topic for another time. :)


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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-12 11:20 am (UTC)
This is something I'd like to read your opinion about- if you ever write such an essay please send me a link.
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[User Picture]From: lassiter
2005-10-12 11:40 am (UTC)

I will do that, although my speculation doesn't amount to anything worthy of essay status at the moment and likely never will. It's based on what I perceive as lots of dodgy ambiguity in AC's "Equinox of the Gods" account of the receipt of Liber L, but the hypothesis comes down to the fact that Rose, not AC, was the one "overshadowed" in the process. I suspect that she dictated the entire book to AC "over his shoulder" - the "deep" voice of Aiwass being a possible narrative blind. She was certainly the one who altered the original manuscript, despite the warning not to change so much as the style of a letter, so perhaps only she, not Aleister, had the "authority" to do so.
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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-12 11:44 am (UTC)
AC's varying accounts of the reception of the Book also make me a bit suspicious regarding Rose's role, as does the Book itself- notice that the narrator usually addresses the "receiver" in the plural. This book was not delivered to only one person.
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[User Picture]From: lassiter
2005-10-12 11:48 am (UTC)

"Rose said it, I believe it, that settles it." :)
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[User Picture]From: 00goddess
2005-10-12 11:49 am (UTC)
Put it on a bumper sticker!

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From: the_gumbie_cat
2005-10-10 06:17 am (UTC)
you know i think that statement looks worse then it is intended to be outside of the context of will. being that the law is Will, and Love under such, then one would not operate in violation of thier Will, or in violation of anothers. thier for never changeing a childs diper, or never showing love or kindess to others wouldn't nessicarly be the correct course of action because they are taken agaist the nessicary banal procedures to promote and encourage the growth of that person's Will.

Now i think perhaps the statement on compassion was ment as more of warning towards inaction to the point that one steps aside and puts one's own will at risk for other beings...ie steping infront of a moveing car to avoid squishing an ant on the pavement.
a funny story the Dali Llama was in an interview and during the interview was swatting flys at his face..the person interviewing him stoped in horror and said "aren't you destroying life doing that?" and the Dali Llama responded "it was thier karma."

...i suppose i recall that because this conversation reminds me of some arguments on how to be Thelemic is working in opposition of being Buddist...and i think Crowley would and did back that statement. sometimes though i question that, as most eastern religions, expeicaly Buddism are very syncratic, but it's a very western thing to believe we can mish/mash all religions on a whim...or very discordian... PRIASE "BOB" *winks*

anyways i'm going to shut up before i say something stupid, and crawl back into my little hole...btw we need to see if a scheduals ever match for a bottle of water in the art barn.

-v-
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[User Picture]From: tausirhasirim
2005-10-10 07:08 am (UTC)

AFTER 9/11 EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT

My first OTO mentor and Lodge Master was fond of saying cute things like "God protect us from fundamentalist Thelemites" and I used the term for years, till I actually saw an alleged Thelemite and former student of mine, Tom C., actually beating on a copy of Liber AL and preaching at me, saying all he'd learned he'd learned from me, and we need more zealous fundamentalists. I heard the sound of jackboots, marching in unison.

There are no Thelemic Fundamentalists, actually, in my current view. Post 9/11 I view fanatic literalists of this sort as "Thelemists" who I have no more patience with than "Islamists".

Fundamentalist fanatics - whatever they call themselves - should be called what they are; fascists.
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[User Picture]From: bythebootstraps
2005-10-10 03:17 pm (UTC)
it's not the fundamentalists that scare me. it's the middle-management, rule-mongering, synchophantic, ass-kissing nitwits that do it.

:-)
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